MM on ME


Apr 17, 2010




On 'Exercising' as a serious subject in re ME

Hello Cort,

I don't think Kim was "discounting everyone's experience":


Quote Originally Posted by Cort View Post

Kim, will no doubt, think that I am discounting everyone's experience but the truth is that I think I could benefit from this. I've had CFS for about thirty - a relatively mild case - but still unable to do any 'real exercise'. All I've done is walk. But I have shoulder, neck and head pain and knee pain. My muscles are all flaccid. I imagine that if I did this right - strengthening exercises with small weights - in very short time periods - it could help with that. Every time I've tried to do weights or anything like situps - I've had an immediate bad reaction but I've never tried to do it at such a slow pace. I imagine that if I got small hand weights and used them very slowly I would feel better. I think this is pretty darn mild stuff. Nobody says its going to make you well.

Swimming I don't about it :)

And as to your writing "but the truth is that I think I could benefit from this":

Strength and Conditioning

* A strengthening and conditioning program can reduce pain, prevent muscle spasms, increase strength and flexibility, improve balance, reduce falls, and enhance stamina and function in CFS patients.[78] Low-level exercise, including stretching, strength training, and simple resistance training, appears to

be reasonably well tolerated by most patients, as long as they learn to avoid overexertion.

(note the qualifier - reasonably well tolerated (not completely tolerate) by most patients (most not all - that's their experience) - so long as they avoid overdoing it. A very important qualifier).

* Encourage patients to start with simple stretching and strengthening exercise, using only body weight for resistance. Gradually add wall push-ups, modified chair dips, and toe raises to the routine. Increase repetitions gradually. Patients can begin with a set of 2-4 repetitions and build to a maximum of 8.
* Add resistance exercise as strength improves. Exercise bands or light weights are both good options for simple resistance training that increases muscle mass and metabolic rate without overtaxing CFS patients.
* Add a focus on strengthening core abdominal muscles to relieve back pain and improve overall circulation.
* Advise patients who do not tolerate an upright position to use other positions rather than standing. Stretching and strengthening exercises can be performed on a floor mat or in water.
* Be aware that for patients who are severely deconditioned, it may be advisable to begin with a physical conditioning program, which is primarily anaerobic exercise, before introducing aerobic activities.
* Encourage patients who can tolerate greater levels of exercise to engage in movement therapies like yoga, tai chi, and qigong and light aerobic activity like short walks and swimming.
* Educate patients about the role that even modest strength-building exercise can play in increasing muscle mass and setting metabolic rate. Since many CFS patients have a very low metabolic rate, and metabolic syndrome is a common comorbid condition, building muscle mass is important

(1) It would do me no good whatsoever (believe me: I have been "exercising" far too much for my ME for 21 years now for having the higher level I had then that collapsed from Amsterdam's illegal city government, causally speaking, as medical specialists and doctors who treat(ed) me have written also)

(2) I don't want this socalled "strengthening and conditioning program" imposed on me, or even talked about in such limited time as a doctor and a visiting patient with ME have; I don't want ANY of this "Advise patients "; "Educate patients "; "Encourage patients " - it is all interference with my life and such possibilities, concerns, interests, risks and pains I have living in my ME-ified body since 32 years: I WANT BIO-MEDICAL TREATMENT i.e. investigation and presciption of medicines, not exercises, for I know how futile or dangerous that is, and I WANT N0 MEDICAL DOCTORS TALKING WITH ME ABOUT EXERCISE AS 'THERAPY', 'PROGRAM' OR WHAT NOT with me.

(3) Persons with ME who are not totally intellectually demented are perfectly well capable to decide at their own descretion whether they want to try to exercise and what to do, thank you very much. (It seems to me to be in the class of amygdala-therapy if that makes it clearer: OK if you think you have to, having ME and being an adult... but not something to enthuse about or recommend as 'therapeutical' for ME, for as TeejKay asked somewhere quite righly (paraphrasing from memory)

(4) You aren't going to seriously propose the inclusion of physical exercise therapy for people with cancer of the colon, are you?

(5) Every so called 'therapy' has its thus called 'therapists'; all these 'therapists' want money for giving 'therapy'; all 'therapy' that is not concerned with finding out what specifically ails a patient with ME bio-medically and trying to find effective medication for these is a loss of money and time.

(6) Playing chess significantly improves my symptoms (because I rest physically, I exercise my brain - that one really human organ that needs so much exercise - and my thoughts are directed away from my pains and problems). I think this will be so for the vast majority of persons with ME. Or for playing bridge, poker, solitaire, or computergames (say SymCity, to keep it quiet). Now shall we introduce chess (etc. ad libitum) as 'therapy', 'exercises', that needs medical discussion, investigation, payment, which doctors, therapists, psychotherapists, psychologists, are to "Advise "; "Educate"; and "Encourage patients " towards, and make money by, while pretending to treat ME?

(7) I have been saying for 21 years now, very truly also, very well-founded of MY knowledge of MY forms and manifestations of MY ME that

All I can guarantee is that I cannot guarantee anything
about anything that involves physically exercising my body,
that is, anything I do with it, except that I have to pay for
anything I do afterward, in unpredictable amounts, for
often unclear reasons, but I always pay afterwards,
sometimes for weeks, months years and indeed

It may be I don't quite understand you, and I know you are by personal preference a real physical exercise person (I am not), and if physical exercising in some ways does you good - but it is for me really on the level of my playing chess against my computer, if that is not more helpful (for me, for ME, for some, for many - and I like your care of logical qualifiers and terms).

Best regards,


P.S. I do believe there is one definitive doctrinal CoFIBs rule I ♥ wholeheartedly ♥ subscribe to:

The definitive doctrinal CoFIBs rule for exercise (Dr. Yes infallible-warranted (tm):

Only exercises with Kim-Imprimatur have CoFIBs Nihil Obstat
All other 'exercises' are BAD, especially as 'therapy for ME'

(Ex. Summa Logica de ME, fr M. Ockham, printed for the Church of Fallible Illness Beliefs ca. 1769, Amsterdam: rare manuscript)

(Submitted by Frater M. Ockham, with reverence )

And if 'exercise' is to be 'medical therapy' I know a few more, the money could go to:

playing chess, yodelling therapy with Kim, meditation, chanting, sudoku-solving, films-watching, yea ...

being a contributor to the Phoenix Forums URGENTLY needs to be made into AN OFICIAL MEDICAL THERAPY FOR ME:

Here the best psychotherapists and psychologicians are active! Amusements guaranteed! No pain, no physical exercise involved whatsoever, if not desired!

Let's discuss those type of therapies and stop endorsing or condoning 'physical exercise therapy for ME' except if they pass the The definitive doctrinal CoFIBs rule for exercise (Dr. Yes infallible-warranted (tm):


... and once KCL, GMC and CDC approved Dr. Yes's and Fr. M. Ockham's therapeutical fees payable to approved therapists will be... sensational (I think I feel the Dr. ESPing me)

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