MM on ME


Mar 3, 2010




META-smalltalk on this thread

Verbal explanation: "META" is a logician's term for talk about talk.

I've mailed Cort about this thread and asked him to consider the proposed new forum rule, to help moderate things by at Phoenix Rising.

As to discussions I proposed as conditionally possible on my site: I wrote an "if", that it - as is usual with it - choose to ignore.

Anyway... I am not willing to "discuss" something that claimed again and again and again it wants a real discussion (i) on a necessarily and fairly linguistically and logically restricted place (forum) of public talk nor (ii) on my own site if it doesn't even have the spine to own up, fairly, honestly, reasonably, academically correctly, to what it really is, also merely in terms rationally relevant to a fair and academic discussion (since I did not - e.g. - ask for employer, income, address, phone, etc.)

But I can understand why... the whole University of Amsterdam, but for some of its remaining really rational and scientific professors, who supported me behind the scenes, avoided taking up my gauntlet when I threw it in their faces, publicly, repeatedly, a year long, in public, for all in the university to read, every month, starting with "Whores of Reason", which is what I called them.

They did not dare to do so publicly, having read my paper published prose, and do not dare to do so to this day (also since in 2008 a Dutch Parliamentary Committee investigated the state of education in the Netherlands, and confirmed all I had been saying for over 33 years in a Parliamentary Report, the so-called Dijsselbloem rapport):



Title: Spiegeloog columns (list of all, mostly Dutch)
Link: http://www.maartensz.org/meinadam/sploog_columns.htm
Title: Yahooisme & democratie (mostly English, relevant also for Wesselyanism=Fraudianism)
Link: http://www.maartensz.org/meinadam/spyahoos.htm
Title: 39 Questions about the qualities of education and government in the Netherlands
Link: http://www.maartensz.org/meinadam/uvaquestions1988.htm

and also, in quite a few cases, having met me personally(!) or having heard me debate, e.g. in the University Parliament, as was then the ruling institution of the University of Amsterdam.

What they did do, was to let me know, by way of secretaries, knowing full well that I was ill and an invalid, that



"We from the scientific staff would love to see Maarten Maartensz dead." (*)

As the good Dr. Yes explained elsewhere on the forums - and Dr. Yes is a fool iff Dr. Yes wants to be a fool: a remarkably laid back and gifted man! - persons having once passed the Graduated Exercise Therapy of a modern university are all too often and easily of the homo homini lupus type, for which reason I DO want to know who I am dealing with when there is to be anything that may be more than playful discussion (or what pretends to be but skillfully isn't).

O, and the above 39 Questions about the qualities of education and government in the Netherlands were the - nominal - reasons to remove me for the third time from the University of Amsterdam, briefly before receiving the M.A. philosophy. (The linked version is in English. The original version was in Dutch, and was read to an audience in the Faculty of Philosophy, that I was asked to address as invited speaker, in may 1988.)

It's because of experiences like these, that I am quite willing to discuss publicly (and spend time and energy on that rather than something else) - as everybody who is socially anything in Amsterdam or Holland, with a reputation to lose, dares not do, once they have read my site and prose and have checked out my history - but that anyone who wants to be thus honoured by me needs to provide testable specifics about his or her real identity and finding-place and academic qualifications to do so seriously, much rather than as part of some sick or silly anonymous SM-game that masquerades as real, honest, deeply interested love of me.

Finally to return to part of what is at issue:

I consider this forum to be



among other things, such as a meeting place and a place where my beloved Church Of False Illness Beliefs deigns to gather, to listen attentively to their good and great Pastor, to yodel fondly with their excellent and witty Choir Mistress, and discuss rationally The Church's True Teachings with the hermit Frater M. Ockham (emeritus)


an international ME/CFS Advocacy Association (**), with standards for what it stands for as regards ME/CFS and what it opposes, as regards diagnoses, treatments, verbal descriptions, definitions, wordings and research, funding and (real versus pseudo) science

which is another reason that I think a new moderation rule for this forum, on the line as proposed, seems desirable.

drs. Maarten Maartensz.

(*) As to evidence about what one is: There even is a professor at one of the US top universities who can affirm all this is so - but I am not going to name this person for the sick joys of a mere spook with ghastly ghostly issues an academically trained psychologist, philosopher and logician like me is well-qualified to diagnose, judge, discuss or debate...but only with human beings who can be personally reached, identified and weighed intellectually, morally and legally, and not with mere ghostly trolling spooks with issues.

Re Spiegeloog & UvA:

The Dutch was: "Wij van de wetenschappelijke staf zien Maarten Maartensz het liefst dood."
The "Whores of Reason" ccolumn is de "Hoeren van de Rede" one.
The interview is indeed with Theo van Gogh the film-director, non-conformist and controversialist, murdered in 2004 by a fanatic muslim with issues, I was friends with when this interview was made (in 1989).

(**) in nuce & sui generis.


This shows how widespread the trouble with trolls, griefers and lamers is, and note all of the following is both relevant and composed wholly apart from this forum or this occassion:


Df = Definition

From the wiki on "Troll (internet)":



The contemporary use of the term is alleged to have first appeared on the Internet in the late 1980s, but the earliest known example is from 1992. It is thought to be a truncation of the phrase trolling for suckers. That phrase is itself derived from the fishing technique of slowly dragging a lure or baited hook from a moving boat, waiting for fish to strike, a technique known as trolling. The word also evokes the trolls portrayed in Scandinavian folklore and children's tales, as they are often creatures bent on mischief and wickedness. The verb "troll" originates from Old French "troller", a hunting term. The noun "troll", however, comes from the Old Norse word for a mythological monster.


Trolling is a game about identity deception, albeit one that is played without the consent of most of the players. The troll attempts to pass as a legitimate participant, sharing the group's common interests and concerns; the newsgroups members, if they are cognizant of trolls and other identity deceptions, attempt to both distinguish real from trolling postings, and upon judging a poster a troll, make the offending poster leave the group. Their success at the former depends on how well they and the troll understand identity cues; their success at the latter depends on whether the troll's enjoyment is sufficiently diminished or outweighed by the costs imposed by the group.

Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community. Furthermore, in a group that has become sensitized to trolling where the rate of deception is high many honestly nave questions may be quickly rejected as trollings. This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations. Even if the accusation is unfounded, being branded a troll is quite damaging to one's online reputation.

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