I continue being not well, and today just have some links, quotations and
comments about the two subjects in the title:
1. Aussie quashes Wessely
1. Aussie quashes Wessely
Personally, I am all for logical, scientific, rational argument, and
also quite good in it, for which reason it would be nice if professor
Simon Wessely would be willing to start a discussion with me, but then
the chances of that are as close to zero as one can wish, realistically
Therefore it was quite nice to find the following link
which contains the text of an exchange of e-mails between a very smart
Australian of 22, ill with ME/CFS since 5 years, and a student of
astrophysics if not fallen ill, and professor Wessely, that took place in
the beginning of August.
It must be supposed that professor Wessely - who for many years
carefully avoided professor Hooper and Margaret Williams, for example -
did answer the mail of the Australian (I read it all rapidly through,
quite tired, and may have missed a location where the gender - as the
phrase is - was settled, so I don't even know that, nor the person's
name), because he felt that he could take on and defeat this aussie
Not so - and to the contrary: As the aussie says, after doing it very
well, very logically, with lots of relevant knowledge and references, and
I have now analysed every
argument Professor Wessely has presented to me and every counter
argument of Professor Wessely’s. Professor Wessely has cherry picked
peripheral points that I mentioned in my letter to him and argued his
position on these largely irrelevant points. As I have detailed
above, his arguments are full of fallacies, inconsistencies,
contradictions and largely a disregard for the scientific method. I
believe I have successfully nullified all of Professor Wessely’s
arguments, sometimes using multiple methods.
What is most striking in Professor Wessely’s letter is not what he
has written but rather what he hasn’t written. In the previous letter
I sent to Professor Wessely, I detailed over 20 independent
arguments, each one singularly sufficient to falsify his CFS
paradigm. Professor Wessely did not even attempt to argue back to a
single one of these arguments.
Professor Wessely has argued irrelevant points that are peripheral to
the topic at hand. I have demonstrated that even these arguments are
flawed. His avoidance in responding or addressing my arguments
further incriminates his CFS model. I therefore conclude that
Professor Wessely’s CFS psychosomatic viewpoint is erroneous,
unscientific and of no use to CFS patients suffering from CCC.
So.... if you care for real good logical argument and/or seeing
professor Wessely thoroughly vanquished in argument,
Conversing with Professor Simon Wessely,
is the place to go to.
I strongly recommend it, and the only remark I have is that to follow
and appreciate it properly and thoroughly you need to be smart and
inclined to rational scientific argument - which may be asking too much
from quite a few persons at present writing on ME-forums, which is my next topic.
As I outlined yesterday in a note, I am not a member of either the
PR-F nor the ME-F forums, although I have been a member of each, though
not at the same time. My nominal reason to write that note yesterday was
that moderator Jane Clout of ME-F lied about me and about ME-F on PR-F,
which I take exception to, as I do to her meddlesome person, if only for
reasons of self-interest: I do not want spokeswomen like Jane Clout
speaking for patients with my disease, because she lacks the capacities
or the desires to do that well, and because I do not want to be removed by
such a one from a forum she has not the capacity (or wish) for to moderate anyway, and then
lied about in public as if that forum removed no one.
I am not willing to write a lot about it now (stupidity knows no
cure), so I just give some commented references to what I wrote earlier about the
forums and my unhappiness with how they are run:
Respectfully, from the
trolls on the Phoenix Forums or May 5
(On getting one's foreskin thrown into one's face on the
National Day commemorating the 65th year of the end of WW II, by a
PR-F and a trolling assistant of Bleijenberg/Van
der Meer, warmly welcomed and protected on both PR-F and ME-F,
with only the desires of
troll (*) as reason for my
anti-semitic discrimination, that I will
wish to take up in Holland and Nijmegen University.)
On the human predicament
(On the background for 25 centuries of war between humans and persecutions
of humans by human - homo homini lupus, in the end because of
stupidity, egoism and conformism.)
What the real me thinks about Animal Forum - 2
(I explain things on a polite rational level - incidentally, in my
experience of 60 years of life not appropriate with most persons, since
it it takes too much, or is incompatible with their egoism, I take it.)
respect came into the world
(On the reasons why the average - Our Democratic Silent Majority In Our
Community - likes to level anybody unlike themselves to a level as low
or lower than they are on.)
Sweet relief: The Phoenix Forums' Moderators
(On the reasons why I left PR-F on May 23, 2010: Moderators mistreating ill
people as if this is a matter of course.)
The Phoenix Forums: Briefly and courteously, with due
(My reasons for leaving and pulling all my posts summarized.)
"Pour encourager les autres"
(About the banishment of Flybro in May from PR-F, that surprisingly few
members of PR-F spoke up against, although quite a few that then failed
to speak up at present are raving and ranting about PR-F on ME-F -
without ever having taken the trouble themselves, in May, June or July,
to do anything about laying good foundations, rules and plans for a
good forum on ME-F.)
ME + me:
(My optimistic first mentioning of the ME-F forum, then administrated by
_Kim_ and CFS_since_1998. The last liar seems to have pestered _Kim_
away between May 28 and June 5 and should be removed as admin as a
Where are MM's posts on Phoenix Rising?
(I pulled my posts when I left PR-F, and put them on my own site.
The link provides the link, including the remark that they still need
Should I've been a comedian? +
(Links to Bill Maher and an explanation of PC.)
The tragi-comical human fundamental problem
(Links to George Carlin and more about the fundamental human problem
explains my subject, and shows awol in action, who has quite a few bits
missing between her ears, it since turned out, but possibly for that
very reason is admired by the majority of the lesser gifted.)
On infecting and storming blood banks
(On Grandmother Pamela Carter's pretensions to being A Revolutionary
c.q. a few of my rebuttals to her desire to attempt to poison the US
bloodsupply and/or to attack bloodbanks allover the world. This woman
is still administrator of ME-F, and should not be there. Since
troll, who seems to have arrived very early on ME-F by the
administrators express personal invitation (!!), was again allowed by
Master Since and Mistress Particia to throw my foreskin in my face, and
as both refused to answer me about this unutterable piece of Dutch
trolling shit, I removed my posts from ME-F, but stayed on as Manuel,
with consent from Master Since).
Unsere ME-Fuehrerinnen und ME-Fuehrers
(On Eric_Johnson_from_I&I's totally insane attempts to write out
looooong posts on ME-F defending the Bill Reeves / Simon Wessely thesis
that CFS = neurasthenia: Hardly had the shit appeared, or Awol embraced
and as soon as I protested ON MY OWN SITE
I was totally removed from ME-F, where ever since the lie is
perpetrated - by Jane Clout - that people are not
banned. The insane posts are still on ME-F, to the best of my
CFS since 1998 and Patricia Carter aka Wildaisy rather push the
CDC-fraudulence of the 1980-ies and 1990-ies, in its most obnoxious
form also, by a clearly disturbed person also, on their ME-F, rather
than the "Good Science" they claim they further.)
On a sad misunderstanding of me
(A rather ironic but polite letter to CFS since 1998 and Patricia
Carter aka Wildaisy about their crazy decision to lock me out of all
access to ME-F: Never answered. The
gentleman and lady are even on the level of everyday common politeness
rather absent or offensive than responsible persons.)
Animal Forum - 3: Slaughterhouse 11
summary of who by the date of August 4 had been removed, cowed, hunted
away or banned from ME-F.)
Bloody stupid hysteria + lying
(I explain once more why attacking blood banks or giving blood while
one has ME/CFS is a bad idea, with some added explanations on LP.)
Sofar for the commented summary. Now here is something that evolved
the last few days on PR-F.
The post consists in fact of three: One large quoted one by
Dreambirdie, who explains on PR-F why she left ME-F; a sentence or two by
the poster, Impish; followed by a quote from Flex on ME-F.
I quote the post as I found it on PR-F, but inserted the writers:
Originally Posted by Dreambirdie
Well put. I am erasing my account from there.
Here is what they are planning on doing next... It really makes me
saddened for them. If they have so little energy why can't they
devote it to something that generates more value towards the common
goal of getting a cure for CFS.
Flex (quoted by Impish from ME-F):
So here is what we do!!!
We put together all these dubious issues from the freeprisoner story
http://www.mecfsforums.com/index.php...8.html#msg7938 and her offer
of £10,000 to Cort to go non profit, the Mike Dessin story
http://mirrorsandlights.wordpress.com/ the amygdala Gupta training
programme, the LP pushing, issues on board member (who are they),
financial contributors, etc CT etc. A huge post is is posted here in a
"who is Cort Johnson thread". When it is complete enough we move the
post over to PR. We can put a link to the thread here so that if it is
closed down on PR it can continue over here and Cort and the pussy cat
woman can not control the argument by either shutting it down,
detracting from points or editing.
There is no point arguing with Cort on PR post by post, we need to hit
him and his forum members with one massive post full of questions that
tarnishes his reputation just like he tries to do to the WPI. The
difference will be with us we will be asking legitimate questions. They
say s**t sticks don't they.
If he is claiming to act in the public interest on ME then he should be
questioned thoroughly on burning questions about himself.
1) who is the mystery donor to your non profit status.
2) would you or have you at any time received any financial
contributions from the CAA or the CDC
3) what is the maximum you would pay yourself.
4) do you ever see yourself and your organisation representing people
with purely psychological illnesses therefore drawing a salary from a
non profit for non biological causes
5) why has he been photographed with psychiatrist Peter White GET/CBT
proponent who contributed to the CAA appalling advise pamphlet on ME.
6) Does he believe his own illness to be of psychological or biological
7) how does he check out the validity of the cure stories he publishes
on the forum like the LP and Mike Dessin story and how will he do so
now that he is receiving financial donations from (which) sources that
may have a conflict of interest now or in the future and may even prove
to be fraudulent.
8. how will he change the forum rules around "not questioning another
members diagnosis or recovery claims " when the above conflict of
interest issue could in the future, or may have already been abused by
commercial interests. This is now even more crucial as he is asking
forum members for donations as well as receiving donations from so far
unnamed other sources.
Ah well. After that, there was - among a lot more - a
post by Jane Clout aka Jace - a selfstyled "tale of two forums", not
honest but manipulative;
a post by the owner of PR-F Cort Johnson giving answers to the above
post by Koan giving her version of the reasons for having to ME-forums;
post by Adam that forgets that others can see what's on ME-F, much of
which does not conform to Adam's "I don't think anyone on the other forum
thinks PR is a bad place".
P.S. That's more or less were it
stands today, though I have not worked into the text rather a lot
from ME-F that struck me mostly as childish, that also does not at all
square with what Jace, Koan and Adam claimed about ME-F on PR-F.
Now... what do I think of it? That the persons on ME-F who were
somebody on PR-F - because they could and did write, and made sense -
stand up to their incompetent administrators; remove them - buy them out,
if necessary: the fair price can't be high -for a better set of admins
and moderators, and try to start it again, this time by doing what was
the original intent by the beginning of June: Lay the foundations for a
good set of rules, ends and regulations for a good forum for and by
patients with ME, predominantly interested in furthering biomedical
research into ME, and try again. It will be necessary also to remove some
of the loudmouths and wackos, but then these can roll their own forums or
sites, instead of abusing others on sites they did not create themselves,
for no other clear purpose that I can see, as a psychologist with 32
years of ME, by medical attestation also, than the joys of abusing others
while denying on does it. (**)
O, and for what it is worth: I do not accept either Dreambirdie's,
Koan's, Jace's or Adam's versions of what ME-F is like, though I am quite
certain Dreambirdie, Koan, and Adam each mean well, are intelligent, and
are no trolls at all. Neither Dreambirdie's angry version nor mother
Hubbard Jace's account of ME-F is true, and both are mostly misleading in
The pity is that on the moment there is quite an amount of real talent
with real ME effectively locked in on ME-F by ranting and ravings of
especially Wildaisy aka Pamela Carter, Master Since aka CFS_since_1998
aka the man too cowardly to own up to a name, and Awol, V99 and a handful
of other trolls or disturbed persons.
Maybe it's about time for a better forum or something new... of which
more later, here.
P.P.S. It may be I have to stop Nederlog
for a while. The reason is that I am physically not well at all. I
don't know yet, but if there is no Nederlog, now you know the reason.