"One must be much advanced in the study of morality to be able to
distinguish between pride and vanity. The former is lofty, calm,
highminded, tranquil, unshakable; the latter is base, unsure,
shifty, restless and changeable. The one makes men great, the other
inflates them. The former is the source of a thousand virtues, the
latter gives rise to nearly all vices and every form of deceit.
There is a kind of pride that comprises all the commandments of
God, and there is a kind of vanity that comprises the seven deadly
"The public, the public,
how many fools does it take to make a public?"
“The most utterly lost of all days is that on
which you have not once laughed.”
I keep being unwell and intended to continue and complete yesterday's text
Real science & real psychology = joy with my notes, but that
has to be postponed for lack of energy. Instead, just two brief items
1. Alter study in press
2. A bit more on the LP nonsense
1. Alter study in press
Here I can refer to Mindy Kitei's
site, who first had the news, where it is under todays' date.
This means that it can be on some site any day now - perhaps only for
payment, as quite a few publishers, such as Springer, still do, which is
a shame and an abuse of science - since it can only be in print if it
passed peer review.
Here are two related bits of information.
A. Ms. Kitei writes, also dated today:
On Monday I emailed the CDC press office about this question that
Dr. Monroe didn't answer in
our interview: "One of the CDC slides from this week’s Blood Safety
Advisory Committee meeting showed that the CDC tested 20 samples from CFS
patients that the Whittemore Peterson Institute found to be positive for
XMRV. But, according to the slide, the CDC didn’t find any positives
among those 20. Why was this piece of information—that the agency was
unable to find positives in any of those 20 samples—left out of the CDC’s
XMRV study?" No word back.
This is interesting, for it does suggest astroturfing and dishonesty,
that should not be in science. (*)
And in the same vein:
B. On PR-F
there is a thread on the CDC-website, that seems to be in the process of
being adjusted - underhandedly, not up front, no reasons provided -
to having to acknowledge persons with ME may have XMRV.
This might be accidental, but then the CDC-leadership no doubt knows
what is in dr. Alter's paper that is in press.
Interesting times we live in, if one has or is concerned about ME (the
economy, the climate,
the rot the media keep alive,
the decline of civilization, and more).
2. A bit more on the LP nonsense
I am not sure when I was first aware of what I choose to call the
Lying ProcessTM but
here is my first public reaction to it, still on PR-F, on May 1:
I have no adequate words ready for this LP on the moment but I do have
a link explaining LP in FULL principle with adult students of
psychology at Stanford, whence it may be inferred it will certainly
"work" on a bunch of English 8 year olds or so, just as in North Korea,
the former GDR, and scientology:
Stanford Prison Experiment
Interview with professor Zimbardo:
Readers of Dutch:
Meer over groepsdenken, Zimbardo en Milgram
Drs. M. Maartensz, psychologist
I do recall writing this, as I was both very tired and very angry,
while I should like to insist that the above reaction no doubt conforms
to that of most of the psychologists of my generation (since
when the universities have been "democratized", the average
intelligence of "academically educated intellectuals" steadily declined,
wherefore the amount of intellectual or moral BS with "academic"
imprimatur has much risen).
This was not long before I stopped writing for
PR-F, and indeed here are a few of my last posts there, reproduced
now because the addressee since found reason to change her opinions. I
refer to the thread
on PR-F and quote my own posts from my own copies, and do not quote
others (whom you can read by way of the last link).
A. First, here is some by an English woman who calls herself
Coxy, who has ME and has two children with ME, and
who had decided to try
LP around this time and to write about it on PR-F. I had written an
earlier post to her, quite friendly and polite, which I can't find right
now. This is me on May 5, in one of my last
posts on PR-F (this
last link is where most of them are now, on my site, still in need of
some better editing):
Originally Posted by coxy
I don't have to try Maoism, Fraudianism or BS to be able
to dismiss it rationally, Coxy, and I happen to have the
qualifications Phil Parker lacks.
I have been round and round in circles over the
years buying supplements, trying this trying that. I
have jumped at trying anything that more than a
couple of people on a forum have recommended, only to
find i was out of pocket and there was no change for
me or the children in some cases.
I have been there too, except for children, since my wife
- also a psychologist, or better, in her case: a
neuroscientist - and I fell ill before getting as far as
Maybe ME and CFS are 2 completely different
illnesses, who knows. All i know is that all 3 of us
had every ME symptom on the list between us over the
years. obviously some people were lucky enough to be
well informed early on in their illness to stop it
progressing to a severe state, we were very luckily.
Having said that, when children can't go to school at
all and have to do online learning, i think that's
pretty severe for a child!!
I guess you'll be excusing me of working for the
LP next, that seems to be standard procedure for
anyone who talks positively about it!!!!!!!!!!
No, I believe you. In fact, I have met quite a lot of
people temporally enlightened - they thought, perhaps still
think - by what I and other psychologist consider so much
nonsense. (I live in Amsterdam, that has LOTS of
"alternative" this and that since 1965 or so, of all kinds
I have seen persons I knew fall for Bagwan, for Mahariji, for
macrobiotics, for Jesus' Children, for .... God knows what,
and ALL of them were initially ecstatically happy with their
I have seen the same persons grow resp. insane, hooked on
heroine, with wasted health, and again insane after 3 to 15
months. At least two of these were very good friends for a
while - and I am summarizing here about a decade of Amsterdam
experience (and could mention much more).
So... I hope you are cured of whatever ailed you, and you
certainly have been freed of a lot of money, that will
motivate you to believe that it was not spent in vain (look
under "Cognitive Dissonance" on the net).
I really hope it wasn't spend in vain, but - unfortunately -
if you or your children have what has ailed me (and my ex)
for 32 years now, my expectation is that you'll find
eventually that you may be mistaken.
In any case, I recommend that you'll be careful with spending
more money on LP, and in documenting, preferably in photocopy
etc., what they told you, prescribed you, promissed you, had
you sign etc. just in case you find in a year's time a reason
to show the same to a lawyer.
Note that I wrote like that because Coxy had been polite and clear
before; I liked it that she had the courage to write about what she did;
and it must be pretty desperate to be a mother with ME with two children
B. There was a little more correspondence, also with others,
and I finally concluded thus (with links mostly added today):
I really believe you mean well, and that you met people with such claims,
and I certainly understand why someone like you would be desperate for a
cure - I am, albeit within restraints, and have no children to take care
However, Coxie... the stories I told briefly in a previous post are true,
and very bitter if you were to know all, and indeed involved two of my
(former) friends, both dead now.
My recommendation is as before: Be happy for yourself, but document
whatever is relevant for your rights, and don't believe all you're told
by people who ask money for telling you these stories, now or later.
For you can be sure of this: My advice has been gratis, and I am not out
to deceive you in any way, and am not secretly aiming at your remaining
I am just writing this because I got irritated
with Sir Bob, and because it seems to me my psychologist's duty to call:
Whoaaah! This is rot, and it stinks - and to discuss it as Sir
Bob wants is merely to get it better known, give it more Google points,
and make more riches for Parkerites, and that is not what this forum is
for or about.
Also, an underlying point for me is that I feel that this forum is being
trolled by quite a few, including at least one moderator, and that for
that reason I'll be moving myself to my own site mostly, since on this
site too many people are cleverly sucked into discussions they are not
really qualified for, because they are honest and deceived by a very
reasonably looking nice bait kept in front of their noses by totally
That's also why I ask for qualifications, and why I will move to
my site mostly:
This forum falls too easily prey to anonymous people posturing as if they
know something, but who don't, but are and remain covered by their
anonymity and their "honest" assurances they "mean well".
I have no cures to offer, except that one like me
is far more effective by not having to spend time on Sir Bob's
feelings or those of others, who don't fear to thread where they have
no business threading (he said optimistically, dreaming of the LP yearly
turnover), simply because on a forum like this one gets anonymous access
and then can say what one pleases as soon as one somehow has impressed a
few people one has ME - which is an easy thing to do for a psychiatric or
psychological pro with bad ends, since on a forum like this so much
depends on good faith, as it is called. And on a forum like this, where
the Wesselites can freely troll, many are afraid to be found out by
Wesselites, and rightly so, and I have been yesterday offended in a very
pro way by a very pro, that I want to do a little skinning of, without
lots of people I like telling me "No, no, no: for
skinning you need The Full Proof". (No thanks: I don't.)
So I will be soon writing again more for my site than for this, simply
because I am FAR more effective there than here, where I am gagged by
would be goodies who are real phonies, and who can remain anonymous while
pleading loudly and as if offended that they ought not to personally
criticized, or should be free to discuss any topic they please in any
way, without being called to prove their qualifications to do so
reasonably and honorably.
I think you have been deceived, Coxy, if you
have what I and my ex
have, and you should take strength from the fact that many
extra-ordinarily clever folks have been hoaxed by pros. Just think of
Madoff, the Phil Parker of private investment banking...be glad you
didn't fall for his spin, for then you would have been financially
even worse of (seeking a silver lining
) and you and your children might
be begging for food, homeless in the streets of Beautiful Blarified
P.S. Who has a website since 14 years -
- which proves as clearly as anything can be personally proved on the
internet, that he is what he says he is.
C. So I am somewhat intellectually satisfied to read on PR-F
this post by Coxy:
LP is the so called cure to me/cfs that isn't a cure, it stands for
lightning process and it's a very expensive 3 day therapy.
There is some more to be found by her, but that is the fair summary of
it. It's not morally satisfying for me, in that she still is an
ill mother with two ill chldren, but I do like it that she has the
courage to own up to her experiences, and
it should give other people
with ME some pause before shelling out a lot of money for LP.
Let me end this by explaining why I am so certain that people who do
have what I and
my ex have
are not helped by exercise nor by LP nor by CBT, apart from my
knowledge of psychology and my general intelligence and scientific
Having ME now for 32 years without help I have been forced many times
to exercise more that I should have, simply in order to survive, to move
house, to get shoppings, to clean my house etc.:
Surely it is possible to force oneself to do more than one feels one
can do. Surely it is possible - up to a point - to push oneself through
one's pain and do something physical because it needs doing. Surely it is
possible to be pushed through one's pain and do something physical by a
plausible "therapist" or "trainer" with plausible promises.
Indeed, I have been forced to do so many times,
32 years without help while being ill - and each time eventually I
had to pay it back in terms of Post Exertional
Malaise (PEM), as the phrase for the symptom is: Days, weeks,
months, in my case years with more pain, less energy, more physical
problems, more malaise, more misery in bed, by force and not by desire,
simply for being to miserabole to be anywhere else. Simply for doing too
much, feeling or being forced to do as much,
in spite of pain, fatigue,
sweating, cramps, tremors and dizziness.
And this is again why I find both Graded Exercise Therapy (GET) and
the LP scam such disgustingly immoral proposals to make to persons with
ME, at least by those who should know better, such as psychologists,
medical doctors and psychiatrists, or who do it for money, pretending to
have a cure.
P.S. Those who are looking forward fondly and impatiently to my
notes to Real science & real psychology = joy
have to have a little patience.
And I myself am looking forward fondly and impatiently to dr.
Alter's paper, and predict confidently that it will change
things in ME-land, whether it is basically unaltered in implications (as
seems the probability) or whether it is altered in implications.
(Oh yes... I am
P.P.S. It may be I have to stop
Nederlog for a while. The reason is that I am physically not well at
all. I don't know yet, but if there is no Nederlog,
now you know the reason.