May 24, 2010


ME + me: Relief at last from the Phoenix Forums


   "There are no good guys. There are no bad guys. Mladic is my colleague. Please don't shoot the piano-player."
    -- Lt.col Karremans, Dutch troopleader in front of Srebrenica, addresses Gen. Mladics, with a summary of Dutch morality as prescribed by his Dutch Government. (Result: Over 8000 murdered, though no Dutchmen, happily.)
     "Odi profanum vulgus et arceo."
      -- Hor. Od. 3, 1, 1.

(Diogenes preparing to find real men)
                                 (By Gerome)

Yesterday my text was this:

I continue being not well and this is just a very short piece to register that all my posts to the Phoenix Forums are now on my site, albeit it in need of some better editing:

Incidentally, this constitutes the effort of 17 days of work (and 4 MB of texts spread over 380 files) for it was not easy with my presently lousy health.

Here is the explanation, in the terms of an email I wrote today to one member of the forum that could not find my posts or name, incidentally just like me this morning:

Here are question and answer, with the name deleted for safety-reasons:

Hi Maarten, I realized I hadn't seen you around for a while, and then could not find your profile under 'members' so I guess you've de-registered.

Just to say I'll miss you and your intelligent graphic humorous posts!

Take care,


Hello X,

Indeed I have left the PR-F, because I did not like to have my own missing foreskin thrown in my face by Mark the moderator, and then have all the moderators and Cort stand by, smile innocently, and act as if this is a matter of course. See e.g. here

and it started on May 3. Please note that on the moment Mark the moderators PMs to me are not on line, that show better what really happened.

There is a name for this manner of thing - there are several names for this - that I shall not use but had to appeal to and threaten with in order to have my name and posts removed from PR.

But indeed they have been, though without any excuses whatsoever, not any info for me, though at least that sets me free of being associated with it.

The fact that it happened without any excuses - I am not The Owner nor A Moderator, you see - may move me eventually to settle some scores, for I do not like to be abused, and also not by idiots, careerists or sadists, whether they have ME or not.

I fear that the PR-F are going to be be FAR more tame, with lots of sycophancy also, for many ill people have no other forum or means to be heard and share, and Mark, Martlet, Kurt and Jody - I may say having read yesterdays thread of moderating through twice - are moderating because they love bullying, but hate being found out (incidentally a quite common human weakness).(*)

Aahh well... for the moment I am just relieved I have escaped this with my posts and name removed, so that I am not associated with it anymore, and I can work more on my own site and philosophy and logic.

My posts are still on line, for I have worked like a slave - not being well at all - since May 5 to salvage them for myself and for others who like to read them. This is the index, that like my posts need some more editing:

I think it is an interesting read: 380 posts, 4 MB of html, but it does at present need some more editing, work and annotations to make a decent e-book about one of MMs disreputable attempts to instill rationality or reason among ordinary men and women.

You'll find between May 3 and today quite a few Nederlogs - e.g. these

explain the matter quite well.

In brief, I've been had because I may be dangerous; Mark did the dirty work, ably assisted by Bob the LP-troll (or else someone who BADLY needs mental help: what an awful Uriah Heep creep!); Cort stood by and smilingly approved; and if I hadn't threatened with the word they could not think of themselves, and reminded them kindly I can rubbish them all in any public discussion without Jody, Mark, Martlet and Kurt moderating, my posts and name would probably still be there, and quite possibly heavily edited by Mark, so as to point out how offensive I really am, for clearly he is that manner of "man".

For me, PR is a lost cause: The people leading it do not have the size for it to do it well, neither morally nor intellectually. That's not their fault, but they are intelligent enough to know this, and there and then it gets to be false, egoistical and careerism (for Cort, who is welcome to that, but not with my unpaid assistance and internet-name) - or alternatively (what do I know?) Cort has a deal with the CAA, and he and they possibly sincerely believe a huge community of castrated sheep will be a major force in liberating sheep. (I also am sincere in holding
ordinary men cannot be trusted to put the ills in the world right - it would be a virtual paradise if they were - but then I am also not lying "respectfully" to ordinary men while telling them they are just as good as anybody, if not a bit better - and in fact my real position is rather like many saints and cynics, and here I mean: members of that philosophical school in antiquity.)

However... in the interest of the people on PR, most of whom have little alternative, I have desisted from saying what I really think about PR and the mode in which it has been run, and indeed I will not (having also better things to do, and being really ill, unlike many a troll lovingly regarded by moderators for the flattery and respect they give freely and honorably esp. to moderators and owners: if you want to be respected yourself, regardless of any intelligence, courage, character or the life you dared to lead, crawl you must, and smile with it) - that is, I desist unless I find a reason for it (which I hope not to, but may).

For the moment I go simply on with my own site
; have more time for philosophy and logic; and need not worry about my foreskin being again thrown into my face nor about respectful trolls for LP vomiting their "respect" all over me, or whatever of the typical joys of life I've learned to associate with PR-F: One may not speak the truth on the forums if the truth displeases The Owner or The Moderator, who yesterday have made as clear as they possibly could without public hanging, that they are the boss, and members better beware and be polite, and be full of praise, especially for moderators, with IQs that are appr. 50 points less than mine (as was) - and yes: here I am, in my own fashion, exonerating Jody. ("Stupidity and egoism are the roots of all vice." Buddha - "and they are mostly innate", MMs politically incorrect gloss. O, and "In any institution everybody rises to his level of incompetence", either Parkinson or Peter's law: forgot for the moment).

Personally, I don't mind for myself, since I have my large site, that is well-read for reasons of philosophy, not ME, and I like to have my hands free and no claims on my health or energy or time, but this is not the way to further the cause of people with ME, now in the firm knuckledusted hands of Jody and Co, who mean very well indeed, and if you don't believe it: Off with your head! (As happened to Lily, who is an intelligent woman with character, and as little prepared to falsely flatter as I am. However, that's the fate I wanted to avoid for me, for I want since May 5 off WITH my name, posts and reputation off as well, instead of my words hanging there with my name next to it, fit to be pilloried, edited, and covered with epithetons by moderators without real mind nor active morality.)

I am not surprised but nevertheless a bit sickened by the lack of spine shown yesterday by most on the Moderators-thread. It reads effectively like verbal SM, which is what it was, on the part of the moderators, but no doubt it is I who am disrespectful saying this, while also abusing my academic degrees, as if psychology or logic could conceivably be relevant, Bob the Heep-creep will be glad to tell you, meanwhile flattering you, and blessed by Cort and the moderators also: Ye shall R E S P E C T folks, especially the creeps, the sycophants, the insane, the cruel, the liars,  the ignorant, the lazy and the idiots. History shows after all that all men (and women especially) are the equals of the best, and that's why life is such a blessing, and also why people with ME are so well cared for.

Anyway, as far as I can see... Cort wants only people weaker than him (a weakness of most "leaders", by the way); he is willing to let moderators like Jody, Mark, Kurt and Martlet indulge their partially unconscious desires to hurt and demean; he is not willing to even consider evidence that he or his moderators are unfair or unreasonable; and we accordingly have

in his (on the forum mainly: her) Full Glory. (There's a nice table under the last link. Jody, for one, just doesn't have it in her to really - verbally is not the same - understand what Level III is about, indeed like the vast majority. "Forgive them Lord, for they don't know what they do." (?))

I agree Cort probably means well for the most part, if you were to say so, and he did a lot of hard work to get PR going, but he just is not the type to lead such a group, which indeed also is difficult to do well and easy to botch. What he should do is share power and responsibility with gifted people, of which there are quite a few on the forum of his own nationality, but he doesn't seem to want to do anything special with precisely those I can identify quite confidently as special and as not one of the more common more typical weaker brethern or sisters, full of good intentions, verbally at least, but lacking in talent or will-power. (And I am not at all talking about me.)

In the end, and as far as I am involved or concerned, in this and other matters, it very probably is really a difference between the highly gifted (who choose neither to lie nor manipulate) and the rest, and as the world is, the outcomes are probabilistically predictable. (I loose, the comparatively 10.000 to 1 Marks and Jodys and Bobs win, de-mo-cra-ti-cal-ly and re-spect-ful-ly. Except that I may be read after I am dead, for which reason I better attend to that.)

What is left to hope, you may ask? That real scientists find some real bio-medical explanation for ME RSN, for that will be necessary by 2012, if and when the new DSM-5 gets instituted as planned now, for else a mass of suicides may be expected, I fear, especially if the economy is still is in a mess, as it is likely to be.

If PR is the best the patients can do - and it still is quite good as regards exchanging information and finding likeminded similarly afflicted - there is little hope for ME-advocacy: It really must come from real science. And indeed it is - alas - quite rational to fear that PR is not far from the best that average patients, who are after all ordinary avarage folks, albeit it quite ill, can achieve, when gathered in large groups.

And I like quite a few persons on the forum, and blame them not for any of this business that packed me off from PR-F, and indeed most have little choice but staying if they want to exchange ideas with likeminded friends. Also, it seems quite probable for me that a large group of patients, and apart from a few real rotters like Mark and Bob (that come with any large unsorted group, and usually are fast in the top, having no conscience), cannot do much better than PR-F, and that for effective advocacy a smaller much more selective group is needed, if it is not to come completely from really independent really intelligent persons who can't be submitted by the average and dare to be who they are and say what they think.

Best wishes,


P.S. It is a pity though for the many I have come to like on the forums, I think, and I have had rather a lot of praise and kindness PM-ed to me. In fact, the people to blame are mainly Cort, Mark, Bob the LP-troll (alternative: the cognitively and morally braindead one), Jody, Martlet, Kurt and whoever else "owns", "administers" or "moderates" PR. (Incidentally: The money it takes is little, and the talent too: All it takes, next to a computer, is a website, that is cheap these days, a good html-editor, and some savvyness with computers. I.e. it is not as if Cort and co. run an outfit that is beyond the financial or intellectual power of very average people. However, I won't set up a Forum myself, because I want to do philosophy and logic, and don't know who I should do it with, also having seen the average level of humankind, with or without ME, once more in its full glory, while I am meanwhile 60 and have at least 50 unwritten books in me.)

P.P.S. I may use this mail for my Nederlog for today, in which case (i) I will remove and not mention your name and possibly (ii) add a little salve, although I am not certain about that, since I did write the truth as I see it, and indeed have been silent :- about much I could say.

O, in case you don't know: www.maartensz.org is my regular site. (There are two others, mostly mirroring. I must have at least 1000 distinct readers every day, and 8 to 10 times as many hits, in fact mostly in my philosophy-sections. Clearly, I am unworthy to stand on equal footing with Bob or Jody or Mark, and ought to respectfully defer to them and their likes, for the world to be put right again. )


Why the salve has been missing:

I have not applied "the salve" I spoke of, for four reasons mostly:

First, I am quite angry morally speaking: It was a most shitty thing to do, morally speaking, and I have been complaining about it with all concerned from Cort downwards since it started, and have not received a single excuse, clarification or what not;

Two, as I have mailed Cort almost immediately it was completely unnecessary: If only Mark and Bob had done the everyday decent things they very well know how to do (or would have stood opposite of me or I would know who they really are or where to find them, they would never have dared to) - it is sick, degenerate, cowardly and inferior; (***)

Three, the absolutely least that was necessary, long ago also, was a very generous polite excuse, and the wherewithall that this could never happen. But no: Also no mental and moral size, and not enough real self-respect based of facts - for that is what is at the basis of what happened : smallness of character;

Four, I have been intentionally demeaned, insulted and abused by Mark certainly, by Bob certainly unless he is quite insane, that may be so, though it is far more probable he is just a morally sick person who loves the game he is playing anonymously, like a major coward, and also in the most goddamn awful ugly prose, like a true Uriah Heep creep, like Batavus Drystubble in Multatuli's "Max Havelaar": Nauseating, very nauseating, just like Mark, but he at least is less creepy with (outside PM, that is!) and writes not as bad, if not clear at all and on strange stilts.

So gentlemen: It was small, it was cowardly, it was stupid, it was mean, and it was intentional, and if it ever comes to pass that any of you has the ill luck getting where I can start gunning at you - verbally, argumentatively, pictorially - and not at an anonymous shadow, a mere hull of a man, a mere travesty of rationality and reason, hidden behind the pretensions of doing good work for ill people, and I think it may serve some useful purpose, or will prevent you from exercising power over others, you'll get it, for I despise cowardly cruelty, and have received enough of that because of my illness and my courage and my talents to recognize it.

And where I come from, people just don't do this to people, and you don't need to explain that either - but then indeed we are not all highly gifted and born from very brave persons. (****)

So... what changed?

  • I am no more to be found on the Phoenix Forums: both my name and all my posts are gone (at least: that's how it seems to be: If anybody finds differently, I'd like to be informed)
  • I am no more a member of the Phoenix Forums
  • Those who want to read me have to come to my site
  • There are few links left on the Phoenix Forums (if any) that link directly to my site
  • Those who want to read the 380 excised posts find them here: MM on ME on Phoenix Rising
  • I will work more on my site, on philosophy and on logic (although not well, the last months)

Anything else about ME or the Phoenix Forums?

  • I will keep following the forums (that are still quite OK to find information about ME), and may write about it here (in Nederlog) or in another section of the site (if so, indicated in the ME-section) but I give no guarantees as to frequency, subjects, or tone - and note
  • this does enable me to speak my mind more fully about the Phoenix forums, if I feel like it
  • there is no need to worry about me: The plights of e.g. Dr. Yes or Koan are far more real, awful and important (and indeed I feel quite well, whence the "relief" in my title)
  • my position about ME is totally unchanged (and I am also still quite the same , since 40 years also, indeed to my own amazement, but yes: I am me and dare to be me, in a world of phonies and hypocrites)
  • I still do want a new computer, with a webcamera, to see what is possible with that, but this depends on quite a few things, such as my health
  • if per chance you want to mail me (and are not Mark nor Bob) you can do so, and I will very probably reply politely and friendly, but I will not make a forum out of it.
  • O, a final point of some human importance:

    Except those I blamed by name I blame no one, and nobody is responsible for my words or acts but me and me alone, and I am not in cahoots with any one, and have never been. If someone on the forums takes my supposed shortcomings out on you, for whatever reason, you can mail me.

As to ME/CFS (that I prefer to call ME):

1. Anthony Komaroff

Ten discoveries about the biology of CFS (pdf)

3. Hillary Johnson

The Why

4. Consensus (many M.D.s) Canadian Consensus Government Report on ME (pdf)
5. Eleanor Stein

Clinical Guidelines for Psychiatrists (pdf)

6. William Clifford The Ethics of Belief
7. Paul Lutus

Is Psychology a Science?

8. Malcolm Hooper Magical Medicine (pdf)

Short descriptions:

1. Ten reasons why ME/CFS is a real disease by a professor of medicine of Harvard.
2. Long essay by a professor emeritus of medical chemistry about maltreatment of ME.
3. Explanation of what's happening around ME by an investigative journalist.
4. Report to Canadian Government on ME, by many medical experts.
5. Advice to psychiatrist by a psychiatrist who understands ME is an organic disease
6. English mathematical genius on one's responsibilities in the matter of one's beliefs:
   "it is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon
     insufficient evidence
7. A space- and computer-scientist takes a look at psychology.
8. Malcolm Hooper puts things together status 2010.

"Ah me! alas, pain, pain ever, forever!

No change, no pause, no hope! Yet I endure.
I ask the Earth, have not the mountains felt?
I ask yon Heaven, the all-beholding Sun,
Has it not seen? The Sea, in storm or calm,
Heaven's ever-changing Shadow, spread below,
Have its deaf waves not heard my agony?
Ah me! alas, pain, pain ever, forever!
     - (Shelley, "Prometheus Unbound") 

    "It was from this time that I developed my way of judging the Chinese by dividing them into two kinds: one humane and one not. "
     - (Jung Chang)

See also: ME -Documentation and ME - Resources

Supplements on ME

  ME: On having severe ME
  ME: !! Seriour Health GET + CBT Warning !!
  ME: ME and Human Rights
  ME: Back to the Middle Ages with professor Simon Wessely
  ME: Back to the Middle Ages with professor Simon Wessely - P.S.

Studies in MEdical Sadism

  0: Studies in MEdical Sadism (overview + Kumar & Clark's Clinical Medicine)
  1: "Die Mörder sind unter uns" (the baseness of some medics and politicians)
  2: "101 Good Reasons" (clarification CBT+GET & 101 reasons by G. Crowhurst)
  3: "The evidence & the techniques" (current techniques of MEdical sadism)
  4: Intermezzo - Lucian (a very disrespectful most intelligent satirist)
  5: The amazing & great Kim & Dr. Yes (alas still not well-reformatted yet)
  6: Herr Professor & Frau Doctor Wessely (The Real Truth metavisually)
  7: Professor Simon Wessely's many mental issues (just so: a real sicko)
  7a: P.S.: Professor Simon Wessely's many mental issues (the logic of it)
  8 : Professor Wessely's crap completely clarified (visually) (DrSpeedy+profSW)
  9: Studies in MEdical Sadism - 9 : Dr. Yes maltreated
  ME-disch sadisme op wereldschaal: Zeer verbitterend nieuws
  ME: Waarom dokter Mengele medicijnen studeerde - 1
  ME: Waarom dokter Mengele medicijnen studeerde - 2
  ME: Uitstekende studie over ME en CGT en GET
  ME: !! Seriour Health GET + CBT Warning !!
  ME: Unsere Doktoren - Ohne Wörter - 2

P.P.S. ME - Resources needs is a Work In Progress that hasn't progressed today.


(*) I have a longer file with "fine" quotations proving this without any doubt, but it is not pleasant reading, as is the whole thread of moderating. The longer file may be here tomorrow or gets to be with MM on ME on Phoenix Rising.

(**) This I hope to do the coming week, if I find the health, since collectively it makes quite a few good points; is mostly well-written; shows rather a lot about both the good and the bad sites of the Phoenix Forums; and also shows me in another way than the rest of this site, albeit I am quite recognisable anywhere from my prose, ideas and values.

(***) The same can be said about the whole thread of moderating: No way a Jody would dare to treat, or indeed be allowed to treat, many of the far more intelligent and more learned women on the forum in an ordinary public, with names known, and consequences of immoral acts made accountable.

(****) In general, I can possess my mind calmly in contempt, and have other and better things to do. However, for Cort it cannot be a pleasant foresight, for while I blame him less than Mark or Bob, it was his moral duty ro reign in Mark. He didn't, and the way he didn't plus what happened makes him quite vulnerable, and will not help him get credit with real scientists. (I therefore am indeed happy that I have not involved some real scientists who  might very well have been interested.)

Incidentally, I suspect both Mark and Bob from being quite other than they say, in part because nothing like this ever happened to me, though I had to wade through lots of shit directed at me, and Bob is just so goddamn awful, so utterly low and despicable, that he well may be a KCL-psy trying to smother anyone on PR with any proven talent and character. Also, if you are a real backhanded sadist, his play is just wordperfect.

So one lesson is that in anonymous environments, where people are effectively unaccountable, unfindable and unidentifiable, major rotters have all the liberty their rotten hearts desire.

(And finally, ladies Martlet and Jody - see the whole thread of moderating - who are both so very religious in Christian ways: I have not been saying anything about human weakness and badness and sinfulness that your saints have not been saying, and you know it. You should be ashamed of yourself - but no: you are no Bobs nor Marks, although it would be wise and nice if other people could and would take over from you and from them - but I much doubt it will happen, for both _Kim_ and Katie are far more capable than you are, in quite a few relevant ways also, but declined to do it, no doubt for good reasons, having nothing to do with real abilities and real good will, but with information they have about the goings on behind the scenes, about which I have no idea).

Maarten Maartensz

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